I am excited to share an interview with my friend Penny this week. What has impressed me the most about the outdoor adventures she goes on with her family are all the trips she takes in the winter. I haven't taken our kids snow camping yet, but hopefully we will try it this winter and I will be asking her for advice. I hope you enjoy the interview!

This week we have an interview with an outdoor parent whose children are grown up, so he has the perspective of taking them outdoors through all the stages of childhood. He is also a very experienced at orienteering, which I think is a great way to get kids outside that I haven't tried yet with my kids. He also happens to be my uncle, and when I was a kid I got to go orienteering with them. Enjoy!

This week I'm excited to introduce our friend Shannon. She and her wife are masters of organizing group camping trips, which we have been lucky to be part of for many years now. (They created the camping spreadsheet I shared last week). They have also started taking their kids backpacking and skiing, while impressively managing sports and activity schedules. She is right about how friends help kids hike more - when my kids hike with them they go much farther!

Transitioning to parenthood:

1. What outdoor activities did you do before you had kids? More Skiing and backpacking, kayaking, plus all that we do with kids
2. If you or your spouse were pregnant, did that person continue any of the activities and how did they modify the activity while pregnant? Not really, we got a cushier sleeping pad for car camping. 
3. If you do different activities after having kids, why is that? We haven’t taken the kids paddling yet, but we should be able to do that with our 9 year old soon. Our schedules are busier now with sports and kid activities, so we don’t necessarily prioritize our outdoor activities. We waited until age 7 or so to introduce downhill skiing, but did enjoy cross country skiing when they were young.
4. How old were your kids when you started doing outdoor activities with them? We started camping and hiking when the kids were just a few months old.
5. What was your biggest challenge when you started doing outdoor activities with the kids? Working around the nap schedule! Trying to schedule a hike around a toddler’s nap is tough. 

Outdoor parenting:

1. How have these challenges changed as the kids got older? Our schedules have gotten busier! Soccer, swimming, softball teams, birthday parties, etc. The kids are less enthusiastic about hiking now, but that usually dissipates after the first quarter mile. 
2. Do you have trouble maintaining the kids interest in the activity (ie during a long hike) and if you do, how do you keep the kids interested? Candy. Lots of candy. Also, we just introduced the kids to geocaching and the kids are surprisingly interested! The best thing is having friends on a hike! Chatting with friends makes the miles fly by! Finding ways to make things fun by singing and playing games while hiking helps. 
3. How do you fit the activities into your working life? We try to get out for a hike every week. During our 2020 Shelter in Place we tried to get out one midweek afternoon each week for a hike. 
4. How do you balance outdoor activities with kids activities (organized sports, music, school)? It’s hard! Our balance leans toward a greater commitment to team sports at the detriment of our outdoor adventures. That said, we don’t have a problem with taking off on a Friday after lunch a few times a year to get an early start to a camping weekend. 
5. If you have a partner, how do you ensure that both of you can keep doing your outdoor activities? We take turns. She likes running so I make sure to be on kid duty so she can run. I play soccer, so she’s on duty then. When we’re outdoors together, we’re both on duty...with some breaks.

Summary/Conclusion:

1. What resources helped you figure out how to do these outdoor activities with your kids? (books, friends, groups, blogs, etc). We started with Strollerhikes.com when our oldest was a baby. Then we found a core group of friends who shared our interest in getting outdoors with the kids. Mostly we relied on our outdoor skills from before kids. 
2. What is your favorite outdoor parenting hack? Put the baby/toddler in a snowsuit for chilly nights when camping. Bring extra blankets to pile on in the middle of the night.
3. What is your biggest outdoor parenting mistake? Not pushing the kids hard enough. They can do so much more than we think they can. 
4. If you could give one piece of advice to other outdoor families, what would it be? It is ok to start small, within your comfort zone. Just get out!
5. What is your favorite piece of gear for outdoor parenting? A small solar powered inflatable lantern. It is lightweight enough for backpacking, but creates a lovely soothing glow in the tent.

For our second interview we are excited to share Karl's experience as an outdoor dad. We have known him and his family for a few years. They are part of a group of families we go on group camping trips with a few times a year, until they moved back to Colorado. I have always been impressed with how they find the time to get into the mountains so often while they both worked full time jobs and also with the impressive hiking stamina of their daughter.

Transitioning to parenthood:

1. What outdoor activities did you do before you had a kid? Pretty much the same with less day hiking and more climbing, mountain biking and trail running.
2. When your spouse was pregnant, she continue any of the activities and how did she modify the activity while pregnant? We tried to keep up the outdoor activities.  We even planned a backpacking trip at about 5 months, but afterward we discovered that she needed to back off a bit.  She also gave up canoeing and climbing and any other activity that had a potential for jostling.
3. If you do different activities after having a kid, why is that? Our activities changed and how we approached those activities changed, partly to accommodate the safety and abilities of our child, but also because we were getting older and slowing down a bit.
4. How old was your kid when you started doing outdoor activities with them? 4 months.
5. What was your biggest challenge when you started doing outdoor activities with your kid? Finding that balance between fun and exhaustion.

Outdoor parenting:

1. How have these challenges changed as your kid got older? I’m not sure it has. We still work hard at pushing our child’s limits without harming them or making the activity miserable. Every year she can do more, so we do more.
2. Do you have trouble maintaining the kid's interest in the activity (ie during a long hike) and if you do, how do you keep the kid interested? Hiking games! From Fetch the stick to 20 Questions to Name an Ingredient.  The games have changed as she has aged, but they are still very useful as the mileage increases. 
3. How do you fit the activities into your working life? Anyway we can (from maxing out our weekends to taking a six month sabbatical).
4. How do you balance outdoor activities with kid's activities (organized sports, music, school)? We have avoided organized sports and have done everything we can to keep our weekends open. 
5. How do you and your partner ensure that both of you can keep doing your outdoor activities? We have settled on a group of activities that we can all enjoy together. 
6. Have you ever received pushback on outdoor parenting from family, friends, or community? No.

Summary/Conclusion:

1. What resources helped you figure out how to do these outdoor activities with your kid? (books, friends, groups, blogs, etc) We have pretty much learned by trial and error.  We just kept doing what we liked to do and tweaked things along the way. Early on, I was also involved in a Bay Area group called Stroller Hikes, that organized mid-week hikes with the littles. They are still up and running and can be found at strollerhikes.com.
2. If you’re a writer, what are the blog posts, articles, books, videos that you have written/created that you think would most help other families?  Back when our daughter was little and I had more time, I published a blog with tons of stories and photos from our earlier adventures. It’s quite a good snapshot of our transition from an adventurous couple to adventurous parents. I currently have aspirations of adding some of our more recent long treks and the planning involved in making them happen. The blog can be found at somehowlost.com
3. What is your favorite outdoor parenting hack? Just get outside. Go early and often.
4. What is your biggest outdoor parenting mistake? This one is hard.  I don’t want to say we didn’t make any mistakes, but honestly none of them mattered. We now have a daughter that is just as addicted to the outdoors as we are.

We are so excited to introduce our first interview of an Outdoor Parent! We are hoping to do about two of these each month and use this information to improve our information pages. If you're interested in being interviewed, please contact us.

​Transitioning to parenthood:

1. What outdoor activities did you do before you had kids? Hiking, camping, backpacking, climbing.
2. When you were pregnant did you continue any of the activities and how did they modify the activity while pregnant? When I was pregnant I continued all activities while pregnant with modifications. I didn't backpack after the first trimester (mostly because I was tired and not interested in carrying any more weight) and I climbed only at the gym (not outdoors) while pregnant. Hiking and car camping had no modifications.
3. If you do different activities after having kids, why is that? No change
4. How old were your kids when you started doing outdoor activities with them? 1-2 months started hiking. Car camping around 6 months? Backpacking around 1 year. Climbing for parents went along with car camping. Climbing for kids around 3 years.
5. What was your biggest challenge when you started doing outdoor activities with the kids? Adjusting expectations for how big/high/far/fast we would go. Balancing adult fun and kid fun so everyone has a good time. But really it's been amazing. I remember our first J Tree trip when Evelyn was about 18 months old. She ran around in the dirt for hours chasing after the other kids and having a tremendous time. It was amazing to sit in a chair and not have to entertain her. It was the first time that I realized a pack of kids + nature actually can increase adult free time and relaxation. I've made sure to take advantage of the phenomenon as much as possible since then.

Outdoor parenting:

1. How have these challenges changed as the kids got older? Do my kids count as older yet, lol? My 6 year old is starting to have more opinions about what she wants to do, but so far she loves nature activities. Probably the biggest challenge has been motivating her to hike, since she isn't very easy to carry anymore. See below!
2. Do you have trouble maintaining the kids interest in the activity (ie during a long hike) and if you do, how do you keep the kids interested? Yes, I have trouble with this. The things that have worked include 1) hiking with other kids so they play together along the trail, 2) Carrying a giant box of blueberries for trail tag. The game is "whoever touches the next tree/log/rock/etc up ahead gets a blueberry!" This game has been known to carry Evelyn and her hiking friends shockingly far (several miles), even with significant elevation gain. 3) Adjusting adult expectations about stopping. Stopping more than we want to to explore, talk, snack, etc. Then continuing on. 4) Giving in and carrying her part of the way. She's only ~45 lb.
3. How do you fit the activities into your working life? Right now we are satisfied with planning ~4 - 6 trips/year and doing a lot of local hiking. We are fortunate that most of our family is close so our vacation time is generally spent in the outdoors. This could be a long weekend or a longer trip. We also built a climbing wall in the backyard for at-home free play. This seems to fit with the amount of time we have free.
4. How do you balance outdoor activities with kids activities (organized sports, music, school)? Because I'm a teacher, my vacation time generally lines up with the school year for my kids. I mostly restrict kid activities to the afterschool program Evelyn attends. If she's doing something on a weekend like swimming or gymnastics, I am fine with her missing a class and swallowing the money if we have another plan.
5. If you have a partner, how do you ensure that both of you can keep doing your outdoor activities? It's mostly about scheduling trips that work for our schedules. He is busier than I am at work, so I often will take weekend trips with other families that he can't attend. Neither of us really do outdoor activities sans kids. Kids are just part of our life now and they are generally included. We do occasionally rely on sitters to allow us to climb together. This takes the form of swapping childcare with another family, or getting paid help. We found ourselves stranded in Red Rock Nevada once when another family skipped out our planned trip and we were able to find childcare at a local kids gym in Las Vegas (Evelyn was around 2 or 3yrs). We would wake up, drive her into the childcare, then book it back to the rocks, climb something shorter and then dash back to pick her up by 5pm.

Summary/Conclusion:

1. What resources helped you figure out how to do these outdoor activities with your kids? (books, friends, groups, blogs, etc) Rock Rugratz, our babysitting co-op group (Oaktown Babyswap) that we do at least one trip/year with, and trading tips with other active parents.​
2. What is your favorite outdoor parenting hack? Rather than mess around with a million sleeping mats in the tent, I pack one big egg crate foam for all of us to share. This is nice and comfy on my hips too, which are less resilient than they used to be.
3. What is your biggest outdoor parenting mistake? One time I led a group of families to a climb in The Pinnacles. In my mind the climb had a simple approach and nice flat ground for the kids to play. My memory did not serve me well that day, it was a sloped ravine with a drop-off and there were a lot of toddlers tied to ropes that day.
4. If you could give one piece of advice to other outdoor families, what would it be? Definitely try camping/climbing with another family or two. It keeps the kids busy, provides social time for everyone, and gives the parents flexibility to support each other's activities.
5. What is your favorite piece of gear for outdoor parenting? My daughter had trouble with nature peeing for a long time. The Go Girl was a life saver. I even started taking it to the local playgrounds at home so she could step behind a bush if needed.

See all of our interviews here, where you can browse through them by keywords and locations.

This week we have an update to our General Advice section: first aid planning. This list is based on my experience and my wilderness medicine training that I take every 2-3 years and I updated it based on the course I just took in January. 

As always, we love hearing feedback from readers so we can make this page as helpful as possible.

​We have taken classes with all 3 of them (although over a 25 year time span). They are all excellent, but have slightly different approaches. Our recommendation is to start by finding the organization that offers the most classes close to home, to make recertifying easier. Otherwise, you can look at the information on their website to see if one of them appeals to you more than others.

Once you’ve completed your class, create your first aid kit and make sure you pack it with you at all times:

• Wound care:
  • Band-aids (with fun characters for kids)
  • Gauze pads / gauze roll
  • Betadine
  • Syringe for irrigation
  • Tweezers
  • Vet wrap or coban
  • Badger balm / triple antibiotic
  • 2nd skin
• Blister kit (Great link to blister care from a WFR instructor)
  • Moleskin
  • Molefoam
  • Tincture of benzoin ampoules
  • KT tape blister
• General:
  • Nitrile gloves
  • KT tape (video on how to use for ankle stabilization)
  • Blank SOAP notes
  • Thermometer
  • Children’s tylenol / Advil / Benadryl
  • Epinephrine (if you have authority to carry it)
  • CPR Mask
  • Scissors
  • WMA Field Guide
  • Pen
  • Triangle bandages
  • Tourniquet (they are recommended again)
  • Biodegradable soap
  • Ziploc bags 

And don’t forget to restock your kit before you go out on a trip and audit it once a year for expired supplies. 

The biggest challenge to hiking or backpacking with kids is keeping them moving. It's so important, because we all need to be able to count on completing our hikes before dark or making it to our campsites in time for dinner. Here are the tips we have compiled over the years of hiking with our kids and with our friends:

Get the right pacing and timing of breaks:

• Take enough breaks: 
  • Try to time breaks to milestones based on distance or time
  • Plan for longer breaks to play/play cards every certain time/distance
• But don’t take too many breaks - experiment to find the sweet spot, keeping in mind it changes over time
• Communicate the timing of the breaks so kids can track their progress to the next break
  • Make sure to give the kids their own watch or map if you do this

Be prepared with multiple options of entertainment (rotate through these as needed):

• Try Geocaching 
• Bring pocket guides for animal or bird or plant identification
  • Count how many of a common thing you can find or keep track of who can find the most varieties
• Print out a scavenger hunt to have the kids fill out while hiking 
  • But remember they have to fill it out while still moving!
• Play “I Spy”
• Play the "Alphabet Game" - you have to find something that starts with each letter of the alphabet, in alphabetical order
• Make up stories to tell, or tell stories from books you’re reading
• Hike with their friends - so they entertain each other
  • Even better, if you hike with another family try splitting up the kids and their parents (because our kids often hike farther with other grownups)
• Pick up a Junior Ranger activity book at the park visitor center and try to complete the activities during the hike
• Teach them how to use a topographic map and compass and have them practice

How to avoid stopping in between designated breaks:

• Put water bladders in the kids’ packs so they don’t have to stop to drink water
• Give them some snacks to put in their pocket to eat while hiking
• Help them take layers on/off while walking
  • Make sure they keep the right layers on so they don't get too cold or hot
• Pack the right clothes and check on them during the hike
  • Make sure they don't wear clothes that will give them chafing or blisters
  • Prevent sunburns by putting sunscreen on (obviously this is important in general, but it does make it even harder to hike)
• Bribe with food: 
  • Give them “hiking treats” that have to be eaten while moving 
  • Remind them of a snack and break they are going to get after a certain time or distance
• Give them something to look forward to after the hike (ice cream in town or at the camp store, or a swimming destination)
• Find a hiking stick to play with while hiking (although sometimes this backfires and slows them down)
• If you feel you have to let them stop, try not to let the kid sit down, tell them they can only take a standing break
• And of course, develop standard responses to all the excuses they will come up with for stopping (because you know they will repeat them over and over). For example:
  • Tie their shoelaces yourself so they don’t come undone
  • Remind them to pee during a break
  • Have them take off or put on a layer after a break

Our biggest advice is to keep experimenting and keep getting out there! We believe that you will eventually find something that will work for your family. If you have any specific questions, feel free to reach out to us. And as always, please give us more suggestions of things to add to this list.

​Backpacking with small children can try your patience, but keep getting out there because each year gets easier! We started with our kids when they were able to hike a mile or two. This meant that for us we had a “gap year” in our family backpacking journey, between when we couldn’t carry them any more and when they could walk on their own. Here are our tips to make it work:

What can your kid carry: (Note: these are rough suggestions, adapt them to your kid’s size and ability levels and consider starting with less stuff when they’re older if they’re less experienced)

• 3-4 years old: snacks, small toy, maybe water (keep it very light at this age to encourage them to carry the pack)
• 5 yo: add in more water, headlamp, mug, spoon, maybe playing cards
• 6 yo: add in toiletries, something for group gear (we had our son carry the trowel and TP)
• 7 yo: add in some clothes
• 8-9 yo: add in sleeping bag/sleeping pad

2 yo enjoying her Big Agnes Little Red

Key items for the parents to carry:

• First aid kid, and make sure to include any child-specific versions of medicines you might need and fun bandaids
  • Consider getting Wilderness First Aid or Wilderness First Responder trained
• Extra water (in case kids spill it, or if they aren't carrying it)
• Lightweight sleeping bag, pad, stove etc - since you're still carrying other people's stuff it's really worth it to invest in a few key lightweight items
• Tent
  • Stay small as long as you can - we only switched to two two person tents when our two kids were bigger (we used a three person tent for the four of us before that)
• Platypus gravity filter - the water can be filtering while you're doing other things (or you can train the kids to do it)
• Extra snacks or special treats - for tough spots on the trail

How to pick a good backpacking route for kids:

• Distance: 
  • Many kids can “hike their age” starting at 3 or 4 up until 9 at least (one mile per year of age). It’s a fun challenge to give to them!
  • When backpacking, pick something shorter than what they usually do while on day hikes until you’re sure they can do it. 
  • Some kids are motivated to hike all the four thousand footers in New Hampshire at only 5, some (like my son) can hike 11,000' mountain passes at 5 but take a lot of pushing, and some (like my daughter) are less excited about hiking but love the destination. You need to understand your kids, know when to push them and know when not to. 
• Other hike features to look for:
  • Water (always the #1 choice for my kids)
    
  • Interesting wildlife (banana slugs to count!) or flowers to identify
  • Rocks to scramble over (the domes in Tuolumne Meadows are a good example)

Other tips:

• Make the kids help out with chores (getting water, setting up tents) and adjust the expectations as they get bigger
• Try not to carry the kid's backpack - once you give in it’s hard to give it back. Instead, you need to keep the pack light enough that they’ll carry it the whole time but ensure they are carrying something and that every year they carry a bit more.

The final thing is to find lots of creative ways to motivate your kid to keep moving down the trail. I have a lot of ideas on this one, so I'll save them for a future post.

​Taking your baby on a backpacking trip is a great introduction to outdoor parenting. We took our daughter on her first backpacking trip when she was about 9 months old. It was only one night and just a two mile hike but we loved being able to give her the experience of being in the backcountry with us from an early age. Here are some of our tips on how to make it happen: